[PHP-DEV] AI generated mails

In the thead "[PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Discussion] array_match" I got a reply starting with "Thanks for your feedback and for raising these valid points" and then sort of reiterating things I already addressed ("requires adding delimiters and wrapping the needle in `preg_quote()`") which leads me to believe that the response was AI generated. I might be wrong in this specific case but it got me thinking.

I'm not sure I want to spend time arguing with AIs and was considering replying with "AI;DR" (AI; didn't reply) but I realize that this can be considered rude.

Just to be clear: I realize that AIs help a lot for non-native speakers to express themselves but when I get the feeling that the whole argument was generated and not only translated then I get a bit defensive about my personal time and energy.

As I'm expecting more and more generated mails on this list: What is the feeling on the mailing list about how to handle this?

Regards,
- Chris

2026年8月23日(日) 22:24 Christian Schneider <cschneid@cschneid.com>:

In the thead "[PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Discussion] array_match" I got a reply starting with "Thanks for your feedback and for raising these valid points" and then sort of reiterating things I already addressed ("requires adding delimiters and wrapping the needle in `preg_quote()`") which leads me to believe that the response was AI generated. I might be wrong in this specific case but it got me thinking.

I'm not sure I want to spend time arguing with AIs and was considering replying with "AI;DR" (AI; didn't reply) but I realize that this can be considered rude.

Just to be clear: I realize that AIs help a lot for non-native speakers to express themselves but when I get the feeling that the whole argument was generated and not only translated then I get a bit defensive about my personal time and energy.

As I'm expecting more and more generated mails on this list: What is the feeling on the mailing list about how to handle this?

Regards,
- Chris

Hi, Chris

From a Japanese not native English speaker,
I using DeepL(or Google translator) when since they released.
So I don't think reject unconditionally.

(One another note, He is maybe from RtoL language speaker, So I would
like understand his know-how)

However, That matter was a little bit angry when he not reading the link,
so I can understand your emotions too.

Anyway, I know that he using the AI, but I would like get his
language's know-how.

If you create the rule, So I'll leave it to you.

Regards
Yuya

--
---------------------------
Yuya Hamada (tekimen)
- https://tekitoh-memdhoi.info
- youkidearitai (tekimen) · GitHub
-----------------------------

در تاریخ یکشنبه ۲۳ اوت ۲۰۲۶، ۱۶:۵۲ Christian Schneider <cschneid@cschneid.com> نوشت:

In the thead “[PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Discussion] array_match” I got a reply starting with “Thanks for your feedback and for raising these valid points” and then sort of reiterating things I already addressed (“requires adding delimiters and wrapping the needle in preg_quote()”) which leads me to believe that the response was AI generated. I might be wrong in this specific case but it got me thinking.

I’m not sure I want to spend time arguing with AIs and was considering replying with “AI;DR” (AI; didn’t reply) but I realize that this can be considered rude.

Just to be clear: I realize that AIs help a lot for non-native speakers to express themselves but when I get the feeling that the whole argument was generated and not only translated then I get a bit defensive about my personal time and energy.

As I’m expecting more and more generated mails on this list: What is the feeling on the mailing list about how to handle this?

Regards,

  • Chris

Hi everyone,

Chris, just to clear things up: I am a real human being and I know my way around PHP.

If my previous emails sounded overly formal, it was purely out of deep respect for the experts on this list. Otherwise, I can easily communicate in a much more direct and straightforward tone, just like I’m doing right now.

Also, regarding the mixed-up quotes and repetitions you mentioned—do you really think an AI would make those specific kinds of messy mistakes? If anything, that actually proves I’m a real person!

Going forward, I’ll drop the ultra-formal language and just use this normal tone with you all.

Best regards,
Sepehr

‪2026年8月23日(日) 23:36 ‫سپهر محمودی‬‎ <sepehrphpr@gmail.com>:‬

Hi Yuya,

I just wanted to drop a quick note to say a huge thank you. I truly appreciate your kind words and your understanding of the challenges non-native English speakers face.

You guessed it perfectly—my native language is Persian, which is indeed Right-to-Left! I rely on translation and AI tools to help me structure my English so I can share my technical ideas with the community as clearly and respectfully as possible.

It means a lot to me that you value the technical "know-how" over perfect English. Thank you again for your support and for being so welcoming.

Best regards,
Sepehr

در تاریخ یکشنبه ۲۳ اوت ۲۰۲۶، ۱۷:۲۰ youkidearitai <youkidearitai@gmail.com> نوشت:

2026年8月23日(日) 22:24 Christian Schneider <cschneid@cschneid.com>:
>
> In the thead "[PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Discussion] array_match" I got a reply starting with "Thanks for your feedback and for raising these valid points" and then sort of reiterating things I already addressed ("requires adding delimiters and wrapping the needle in `preg_quote()`") which leads me to believe that the response was AI generated. I might be wrong in this specific case but it got me thinking.
>
> I'm not sure I want to spend time arguing with AIs and was considering replying with "AI;DR" (AI; didn't reply) but I realize that this can be considered rude.
>
> Just to be clear: I realize that AIs help a lot for non-native speakers to express themselves but when I get the feeling that the whole argument was generated and not only translated then I get a bit defensive about my personal time and energy.
>
> As I'm expecting more and more generated mails on this list: What is the feeling on the mailing list about how to handle this?
>
> Regards,
> - Chris

Hi, Chris

From a Japanese not native English speaker,
I using DeepL(or Google translator) when since they released.
So I don't think reject unconditionally.

(One another note, He is maybe from RtoL language speaker, So I would
like understand his know-how)

However, That matter was a little bit angry when he not reading the link,
so I can understand your emotions too.

Anyway, I know that he using the AI, but I would like get his
language's know-how.

If you create the rule, So I'll leave it to you.

Regards
Yuya

--
---------------------------
Yuya Hamada (tekimen)
- https://tekitoh-memdhoi.info
- youkidearitai (tekimen) · GitHub
-----------------------------

Hi Sepehr

Thank you for your response.
If you like contribute php-src, It's not easy way but there is your potential.

You guessed it perfectly—my native language is Persian, which is indeed Right-to-Left!

Okay, If you have motivation for intl extension or grapheme functions,
I need your help.
Your past RFC "grapheme_mask" was seems good to me.
Because feedback is insufficient from RtoL language as a whole.
(It is not only PHP, it is all over the world)
Adapting to internationalization(i18n) for PHP is strong important for future.

You can use the AI, But show some respect.
Please give us to your feedback.

Regards
Yuya

--
---------------------------
Yuya Hamada (tekimen)
- https://tekitoh-memdhoi.info
- youkidearitai (tekimen) · GitHub
-----------------------------

Am 23.08.2026 um 17:13 schrieb ⁨سپهر محمودی⁩ <⁨sepehrphpr@gmail.com⁩>:

Chris, just to clear things up: I am a real human being and I know my way around PHP.

I didn't doubt that you are human but I want to encourage people to keep mails succinct and to the point as mailing lists act as multipliers: One person writes a message for hundreds or thousands to spend time reading.

We've seen GitHub being overwhelmed by the sheer amount of PRs during the last months, and AI making it easier to generate those is IMHO a big part of the reason for this. I Want to avoid internals being overwhelmed by long back and forth threads due to the ease of writing replies using AI.

Apologies if you took my email personal, this thread was not meant to be about any specific email but about a technology and how we handle it to keep internals working.

If my previous emails sounded overly formal, it was purely out of deep respect for the experts on this list. Otherwise, I can easily communicate in a much more direct and straightforward tone, just like I'm doing right now.

Yes, please use direct language, no extra politeness needed for technical discussions like this, certainly not for me :wink:
Additionally it saves time for readers if you strip down the quoted text to the relevant parts.

Regards,
- Chris

On Sun, Aug 23, 2026 at 4:21 PM Christian Schneider <cschneid@cschneid.com> wrote:

In the thead “[PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Discussion] array_match” I got a reply starting with “Thanks for your feedback and for raising these valid points” and then sort of reiterating things I already addressed (“requires adding delimiters and wrapping the needle in preg_quote()”) which leads me to believe that the response was AI generated. I might be wrong in this specific case but it got me thinking.

I’m not sure I want to spend time arguing with AIs and was considering replying with “AI;DR” (AI; didn’t reply) but I realize that this can be considered rude.

Just to be clear: I realize that AIs help a lot for non-native speakers to express themselves but when I get the feeling that the whole argument was generated and not only translated then I get a bit defensive about my personal time and energy.

As I’m expecting more and more generated mails on this list: What is the feeling on the mailing list about how to handle this?

Regards,

  • Chris

Hi Chris,
Thank you for bringing this up.

Since this isn’t the first time this has come up, I’d like to ask whether it’s time internals discussed an AI-usage policy?

A written document would tell contributors what is and isn’t acceptable here. Whether that is a disccussion, an RFC, or a PR.
And it would save everyeone from settling it case by case each time.

It is not new ground either…Python, CURL, Linux Kernel, and Fedora (among others) have all faced the same issue, and each landed on a policy.

For reference:
Python: https://devguide.python.org/getting-started/generative-ai
curl: https://curl.se/dev/contribute.html#on-ai-use-in-curl
Linux kernel: https://docs.kernel.org/process/coding-assistants.html
Fedora: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/council/policy/ai-contribution-policy

Thanks,
Osama

Am 23.08.2026 um 20:41 schrieb Osama Aldemeery <aldemeery@gmail.com>:

Since this isn't the first time this has come up, I'd like to ask whether it's time internals discussed an AI-usage policy?

A written document would tell contributors what is and isn't acceptable here. Whether that is a disccussion, an RFC, or a PR.
And it would save everyeone from settling it case by case each time.

It is not new ground either...Python, CURL, Linux Kernel, and Fedora (among others) have all faced the same issue, and each landed on a policy.

For reference:
Python: https://devguide.python.org/getting-started/generative-ai
curl: Contribute to the curl project!
Linux kernel: AI Coding Assistants — The Linux Kernel documentation
Fedora: Making sure you're not a bot!

One little note here: The above seems to concern code contributions like PRs.
I was more talking about the discussions here on the internals mailing list.

But in the end it applies to both: How do we handle the higher amount of generated code and mails.
And how can guidelines hopefully somewhat protect the limit resources of the PHP maintainers?

Regards,
- Chris

در تاریخ یکشنبه ۲۳ اوت ۲۰۲۶، ۱۹:۰۷ youkidearitai <youkidearitai@gmail.com> نوشت:

‪2026年8月23日(日) 23:36 ‫سپهر محمودی‬‎ <sepehrphpr@gmail.com>:‬

Hi Yuya,

I just wanted to drop a quick note to say a huge thank you. I truly appreciate your kind words and your understanding of the challenges non-native English speakers face.

You guessed it perfectly—my native language is Persian, which is indeed Right-to-Left! I rely on translation and AI tools to help me structure my English so I can share my technical ideas with the community as clearly and respectfully as possible.

It means a lot to me that you value the technical “know-how” over perfect English. Thank you again for your support and for being so welcoming.

Best regards,
Sepehr

در تاریخ یکشنبه ۲۳ اوت ۲۰۲۶، ۱۷:۲۰ youkidearitai <youkidearitai@gmail.com> نوشت:

2026年8月23日(日) 22:24 Christian Schneider <cschneid@cschneid.com>:

In the thead “[PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Discussion] array_match” I got a reply starting with “Thanks for your feedback and for raising these valid points” and then sort of reiterating things I already addressed (“requires adding delimiters and wrapping the needle in preg_quote()”) which leads me to believe that the response was AI generated. I might be wrong in this specific case but it got me thinking.

I’m not sure I want to spend time arguing with AIs and was considering replying with “AI;DR” (AI; didn’t reply) but I realize that this can be considered rude.

Just to be clear: I realize that AIs help a lot for non-native speakers to express themselves but when I get the feeling that the whole argument was generated and not only translated then I get a bit defensive about my personal time and energy.

As I’m expecting more and more generated mails on this list: What is the feeling on the mailing list about how to handle this?

Regards,

  • Chris

Hi, Chris

From a Japanese not native English speaker,
I using DeepL(or Google translator) when since they released.
So I don’t think reject unconditionally.

(One another note, He is maybe from RtoL language speaker, So I would
like understand his know-how)

However, That matter was a little bit angry when he not reading the link,
so I can understand your emotions too.

Anyway, I know that he using the AI, but I would like get his
language’s know-how.

If you create the rule, So I’ll leave it to you.

Regards
Yuya

Yuya Hamada (tekimen)


Hi Sepehr

Thank you for your response.
If you like contribute php-src, It’s not easy way but there is your potential.

You guessed it perfectly—my native language is Persian, which is indeed Right-to-Left!

Okay, If you have motivation for intl extension or grapheme functions,
I need your help.
Your past RFC “grapheme_mask” was seems good to me.
Because feedback is insufficient from RtoL language as a whole.
(It is not only PHP, it is all over the world)
Adapting to internationalization(i18n) for PHP is strong important for future.

You can use the AI, But show some respect.
Please give us to your feedback.

Regards
Yuya

Yuya Hamada (tekimen)


Hi Yuya,

Thank you so much! I truly appreciate your kindness and trust. It means the world to me that you are leaving this part of the core (the intl extension and grapheme functions) open for me so I can play a major role in it. It is a huge honor.

I hope you will have my back and support me while I finish the current function I am working on.

Right after this function is done, I will step up to my responsibilities in that area. God willing, my very first step there will be working on the “grapheme_mask” RFC!

Warm regards,
Sepehr

در تاریخ یکشنبه ۲۳ اوت ۲۰۲۶، ۱۹:۱۷ Christian Schneider <cschneid@cschneid.com> نوشت:

Am 23.08.2026 um 17:13 schrieb ⁨سپهر محمودی⁩ <⁨sepehrphpr@gmail.com⁩>:

Chris, just to clear things up: I am a real human being and I know my way around PHP.

I didn’t doubt that you are human but I want to encourage people to keep mails succinct and to the point as mailing lists act as multipliers: One person writes a message for hundreds or thousands to spend time reading.

We’ve seen GitHub being overwhelmed by the sheer amount of PRs during the last months, and AI making it easier to generate those is IMHO a big part of the reason for this. I Want to avoid internals being overwhelmed by long back and forth threads due to the ease of writing replies using AI.

Apologies if you took my email personal, this thread was not meant to be about any specific email but about a technology and how we handle it to keep internals working.

If my previous emails sounded overly formal, it was purely out of deep respect for the experts on this list. Otherwise, I can easily communicate in a much more direct and straightforward tone, just like I’m doing right now.

Yes, please use direct language, no extra politeness needed for technical discussions like this, certainly not for me :wink:
Additionally it saves time for readers if you strip down the quoted text to the relevant parts.

Regards,

  • Chris

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the clarification. No hard feelings at all! I totally agree with keeping things direct and focusing on the technical side.

Also, thanks for the tip about trimming the quoted text—I’ll definitely make sure to do that from now on.

Cheers,
Sepehr

On Sun, Aug 23, 2026 at 9:10 PM Christian Schneider <cschneid@cschneid.com> wrote:

Am 23.08.2026 um 20:41 schrieb Osama Aldemeery <aldemeery@gmail.com>:

Since this isn’t the first time this has come up, I’d like to ask whether it’s time internals discussed an AI-usage policy?

A written document would tell contributors what is and isn’t acceptable here. Whether that is a disccussion, an RFC, or a PR.
And it would save everyeone from settling it case by case each time.

It is not new ground either…Python, CURL, Linux Kernel, and Fedora (among others) have all faced the same issue, and each landed on a policy.

For reference:
Python: https://devguide.python.org/getting-started/generative-ai
curl: https://curl.se/dev/contribute.html#on-ai-use-in-curl
Linux kernel: https://docs.kernel.org/process/coding-assistants.html
Fedora: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/council/policy/ai-contribution-policy

One little note here: The above seems to concern code contributions like PRs.
I was more talking about the discussions here on the internals mailing list.

But in the end it applies to both: How do we handle the higher amount of generated code and mails.
And how can guidelines hopefully somewhat protect the limit resources of the PHP maintainers?

Regards,

  • Chris

Hi Chris,

Yes, and Yes.

The examples I gave were really just to make the point that others have landed policies, not to claim they map neatly onto the discussion side.

And your two questions are exactly what I was getting at.

With AI probably not going anywhere in the foreseeable future, I think it would be better for everyone to have rules that define what is and isn’t
acceptable in dicussions, RFCs, and PRs.
What I was suggesting is a written policy on AI usage…the same route others have already taken.

Now I recognize it might be a bit odd for a non-maintainer like me to raise a process/governance question…but I have seen people bring up the same issue

in different clothes over the months. So yeah…I think it’s worth writing something down.

Regards,
Osama

Hi Christian, sepehr, Yuya and Osama,

We have a AI policy for Github comments already 1. If you want
to expand it to e-mails and PRs, feel free to open a policy RFC.

Personally, I am okay with AIGC. Fundamentally AI is a tool, and
clearly a useful one. In this thread, I think you treat “use AI or not”
in comments as a “Proof of work” in this era. In most cases, people
using AI to generate text seems to put less effort in it, that’s true,
but I don’t agree with some of the “progressive” AI policy you’ve
mentioned in other projects. As a maintainer of the intl extension,
I’d focus more on the code quality itself rather than whether it’s
AI-generated code or comments. I frankly don’t agree with the
proposal to ban AI in the php internals.

That being said, I feel disgust to communicate with soul-less
contributors who entirely use AI without any critical thinking.
However, it depends. If one can use AI to generate good code
and idea, I am glad to work with these people. I don’t see the
benefit to completely ban AIGC in the project.

Also to sepehr: Thank you for your interest in the intl extension!
To get you started: in the extension, some constant can be enums.
And, I would be in favor of appropriate namespaces to avoid conflicts
in the extension’s class that make things clearer. Maybe that is a good
RFC idea in 8.7 that needs someone to work on. Also, it is still in
progress to fill in the little blanks between php APIs and ICU APIs. It
might to a good way to start if you want to add new functions/methods.
Not to mention the error state stuff in the extension is, frankly, bad, in
my opinion, and could be optimized since it has caused a lot of very
stupid bugs and make my life harder :frowning: There are still bugs and PRs on
Github you can help with, the list goes on and on and on…

There are tons of things you can do :slight_smile: This goes to everyone who want to
contribute to the extension.

Cheers,
Weilin Du, weilindu@php.net

در تاریخ دوشنبه ۲۴ اوت ۲۰۲۶، ۲۳:۳۴ Weilin Du <weilin-du@qq.com> نوشت:

Hi Christian, sepehr, Yuya and Osama,

We have a AI policy for Github comments already 1. If you want
to expand it to e-mails and PRs, feel free to open a policy RFC.

Personally, I am okay with AIGC. Fundamentally AI is a tool, and
clearly a useful one. In this thread, I think you treat “use AI or not”
in comments as a “Proof of work” in this era. In most cases, people
using AI to generate text seems to put less effort in it, that’s true,
but I don’t agree with some of the “progressive” AI policy you’ve
mentioned in other projects. As a maintainer of the intl extension,
I’d focus more on the code quality itself rather than whether it’s
AI-generated code or comments. I frankly don’t agree with the
proposal to ban AI in the php internals.

That being said, I feel disgust to communicate with soul-less
contributors who entirely use AI without any critical thinking.
However, it depends. If one can use AI to generate good code
and idea, I am glad to work with these people. I don’t see the
benefit to completely ban AIGC in the project.

Also to sepehr: Thank you for your interest in the intl extension!
To get you started: in the extension, some constant can be enums.
And, I would be in favor of appropriate namespaces to avoid conflicts
in the extension’s class that make things clearer. Maybe that is a good
RFC idea in 8.7 that needs someone to work on. Also, it is still in
progress to fill in the little blanks between php APIs and ICU APIs. It
might to a good way to start if you want to add new functions/methods.
Not to mention the error state stuff in the extension is, frankly, bad, in
my opinion, and could be optimized since it has caused a lot of very
stupid bugs and make my life harder :frowning: There are still bugs and PRs on
Github you can help with, the list goes on and on and on…

There are tons of things you can do :slight_smile: This goes to everyone who want to
contribute to the extension.

Cheers,
Weilin Du, weilindu@php.net


Hi Weilin,

Thank you so much for the warm welcome and for sharing your thoughts!

I completely agree with your perspective on AI. It’s a fantastic tool that boosts productivity, but critical thinking, deeply understanding the logic, and ensuring code quality must always come first. I always make sure to fully understand and test every line of code I contribute.

Your suggestions for ext/intl in PHP 8.7—like transitioning constants to Enums, introducing proper Namespaces, and improving the error state handling—are absolutely great ideas.

Right now, I am entirely focused on finalizing my RFC for array_str_contains (and related functions) and getting its PR ready. However, I am very interested in exploring those intl improvements for PHP 8.7 right after I wrap this up.

Thanks again for the support and for pointing me in the right direction!

Best regards,
Sepehr Mahmoudi

در تاریخ سه‌شنبه ۲۵ اوت ۲۰۲۶، ۰۰:۵۳ سپهر محمودی <sepehrphpr@gmail.com> نوشت:

در تاریخ دوشنبه ۲۴ اوت ۲۰۲۶، ۲۳:۳۴ Weilin Du <weilin-du@qq.com> نوشت:

Hi Christian, sepehr, Yuya and Osama,

We have a AI policy for Github comments already 1. If you want
to expand it to e-mails and PRs, feel free to open a policy RFC.

Personally, I am okay with AIGC. Fundamentally AI is a tool, and
clearly a useful one. In this thread, I think you treat “use AI or not”
in comments as a “Proof of work” in this era. In most cases, people
using AI to generate text seems to put less effort in it, that’s true,
but I don’t agree with some of the “progressive” AI policy you’ve
mentioned in other projects. As a maintainer of the intl extension,
I’d focus more on the code quality itself rather than whether it’s
AI-generated code or comments. I frankly don’t agree with the
proposal to ban AI in the php internals.

That being said, I feel disgust to communicate with soul-less
contributors who entirely use AI without any critical thinking.
However, it depends. If one can use AI to generate good code
and idea, I am glad to work with these people. I don’t see the
benefit to completely ban AIGC in the project.

Also to sepehr: Thank you for your interest in the intl extension!
To get you started: in the extension, some constant can be enums.
And, I would be in favor of appropriate namespaces to avoid conflicts
in the extension’s class that make things clearer. Maybe that is a good
RFC idea in 8.7 that needs someone to work on. Also, it is still in
progress to fill in the little blanks between php APIs and ICU APIs. It
might to a good way to start if you want to add new functions/methods.
Not to mention the error state stuff in the extension is, frankly, bad, in
my opinion, and could be optimized since it has caused a lot of very
stupid bugs and make my life harder :frowning: There are still bugs and PRs on
Github you can help with, the list goes on and on and on…

There are tons of things you can do :slight_smile: This goes to everyone who want to
contribute to the extension.

Cheers,
Weilin Du, weilindu@php.net


Hi Weilin,

Thank you so much for the warm welcome and for sharing your thoughts!

I completely agree with your perspective on AI. It’s a fantastic tool that boosts productivity, but critical thinking, deeply understanding the logic, and ensuring code quality must always come first. I always make sure to fully understand and test every line of code I contribute.

Your suggestions for ext/intl in PHP 8.7—like transitioning constants to Enums, introducing proper Namespaces, and improving the error state handling—are absolutely great ideas.

Right now, I am entirely focused on finalizing my RFC for array_str_contains (and related functions) and getting its PR ready. However, I am very interested in exploring those intl improvements for PHP 8.7 right after I wrap this up.

Thanks again for the support and for pointing me in the right direction!

Best regards,
Sepehr Mahmoudi


Hi everyone,

Regarding the topic of AI: In my opinion, AI tends to write text in a very literary and formal manner, which makes it useful for that specific purpose. However, if one wants to use it for coding—which I personally do not do—it requires giving it exact, step-by-step instructions to get the desired result.

While some developers might choose to use AI for their code, my personal approach is different. I prefer to work entirely independently and rely on my own skills for both coding and communications.

Hopefully, after finalizing my current RFC (array_str_contains), I will begin my work on the intl extension.

Best regards,
Sepehr

Hey Christian,

···

Marco Pivetta

https://mastodon.social/@ocramius

https://ocramius.github.io/

hello Christian,

On Sun, Aug 23, 2026, 8:24 PM Christian Schneider <cschneid@cschneid.com> wrote:

As I’m expecting more and more generated mails on this list: What is the feeling on the mailing list about how to handle this?

I am usually ok with it. I am not a fan however I totally understand why a few use it. And to see a forgotten line in the copy/paste is not needed to see it.

Many are not native English speakers, or not western languages (double barriers). Add the possible pressure created to post a rfc, a patch etc to internals and I would use it as well to make sure my message comes here well and correctly formulated.

cheers,
Pierre


Pierre

@pierrejoye

hi again:)

On Mon, Aug 24, 2026, 1:49 AM Christian Schneider <cschneid@cschneid.com> wrote:

Am 23.08.2026 um 20:41 schrieb Osama Aldemeery <aldemeery@gmail.com>:

Since this isn’t the first time this has come up, I’d like to ask whether it’s time internals discussed an AI-usage policy?

A written document would tell contributors what is and isn’t acceptable here. Whether that is a disccussion, an RFC, or a PR.
And it would save everyeone from settling it case by case each time.

It is not new ground either…Python, CURL, Linux Kernel, and Fedora (among others) have all faced the same issue, and each landed on a policy.

For reference:
Python: https://devguide.python.org/getting-started/generative-ai
curl: https://curl.se/dev/contribute.html#on-ai-use-in-curl
Linux kernel: https://docs.kernel.org/process/coding-assistants.html
Fedora: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/council/policy/ai-contribution-policy

One little note here: The above seems to concern code contributions like PRs.
I was more talking about the discussions here on the internals mailing list.

But in the end it applies to both: How do we handle the higher amount of generated code and mails.
And how can guidelines hopefully somewhat protect the limit resources of the PHP maintainers?

Most if not all security i could see are discovered by AI. I can imagine many PRs are, at least, partially AI generated too.

One issue I mentioned was the process (I need another word as this not a process anymore at this stage), and will, or ability, to delegate reviews of PRs.

We cannot expect RMs, or RFC policies checkers to have the knowledge for everything in php-src. The latter, and delegation, is harder to solve than the policies.

I only we don’t even think about an anti AI policy or similar bad ideas :slight_smile:

cheers,

Pierre

@pierrejoye

در تاریخ سه‌شنبه ۲۵ اوت ۲۰۲۶، ۱۷:۲۵ Pierre Joye <pierre.php@gmail.com> نوشت:

hello Christian,

On Sun, Aug 23, 2026, 8:24 PM Christian Schneider <cschneid@cschneid.com> wrote:

As I’m expecting more and more generated mails on this list: What is the feeling on the mailing list about how to handle this?

I am usually ok with it. I am not a fan however I totally understand why a few use it. And to see a forgotten line in the copy/paste is not needed to see it.

Many are not native English speakers, or not western languages (double barriers). Add the possible pressure created to post a rfc, a patch etc to internals and I would use it as well to make sure my message comes here well and correctly formulated.

cheers,
Pierre


Pierre

@pierrejoye


Hi Pierre,

Thanks for jumping in with such a great email. You really nailed exactly what it’s like for non-native English speakers.

I really appreciate you bringing some much-needed perspective to the thread and helping keep things constructive.

Cheers,
Sepehr

On Sun, 23 Aug 2026, Osama Aldemeery wrote:

On Sun, Aug 23, 2026 at 4:21 PM Christian Schneider <cschneid@cschneid.com>
wrote:
>
> In the thead "[PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Discussion] array_match" I got a
> reply starting with "Thanks for your feedback and for raising these
> valid points" and then sort of reiterating things I already
> addressed ("requires adding delimiters and wrapping the needle in
> `preg_quote()`") which leads me to believe that the response was AI
> generated. I might be wrong in this specific case but it got me
> thinking.
>
> I'm not sure I want to spend time arguing with AIs and was
> considering replying with "AI;DR" (AI; didn't reply) but I realize
> that this can be considered rude.

I think that replying with "AI;DR" is less rude than expecting all 1199
receivers on this list to want to read overly long-winded LLM generated
text, where seamingly the human-written text from one contributor gets
fed into a sloperator to get a reply.

> Just to be clear: I realize that AIs help a lot for non-native
> speakers to express themselves but when I get the feeling that the
> whole argument was generated and not only translated then I get a
> bit defensive about my personal time and energy.
>
> As I'm expecting more and more generated mails on this list: What is
> the feeling on the mailing list about how to handle this?

Since this isn't the first time this has come up, I'd like to ask
whether it's time internals discussed an AI-usage policy?

Yes, this is long overdue.

For now, I will talk about this mailinglist first (and only).

With that, we end up with drivel like this:
AI generated mails - Externals (au contraire the acceptance
to not do this, as per AI generated mails - Externals).

This is a list for *people* to discuss the PHP language, its features,
and its policies.

Therefore, a policy for this list ought to be that you *have* to write
the content yourself. If that means writing it in non-English and
feeding it through a *translating-LLM* only, that that seems reasonable.

What does not seem reasonable is to ask a tool to write the text for
you, and then copy and pasting this as a reply to this list — especially
because it doesn't deal with the trimming and quoting (as per our
guidelines at
php-src/docs/mailinglist-rules.md at master · php/php-src · GitHub ).

cheers,
Derick

On Tue, Aug 25, 2026, at 10:25 AM, Derick Rethans wrote:

> As I'm expecting more and more generated mails on this list: What is
> the feeling on the mailing list about how to handle this?

Since this isn't the first time this has come up, I'd like to ask
whether it's time internals discussed an AI-usage policy?

Yes, this is long overdue.

For now, I will talk about this mailinglist first (and only).

With that, we end up with drivel like this:
AI generated mails - Externals (au contraire the acceptance
to not do this, as per AI generated mails - Externals).

This is a list for *people* to discuss the PHP language, its features,
and its policies.

Therefore, a policy for this list ought to be that you *have* to write
the content yourself. If that means writing it in non-English and
feeding it through a *translating-LLM* only, that that seems reasonable.

What does not seem reasonable is to ask a tool to write the text for
you, and then copy and pasting this as a reply to this list — especially
because it doesn't deal with the trimming and quoting (as per our
guidelines at
php-src/docs/mailinglist-rules.md at master · php/php-src · GitHub ).

cheers,
Derick

I agree with Derick. Using a translator to assist with a language barrier is reasonable, and these days they've all been replaced with LLMs (justified or not). But I would still prefer to have that explicitly stated, so we know what we're dealing with. (And can use simpler English in replies, potentially, to aid with understanding.)

Beyond that, I want to talk to humans, not slop machines. If someone's diplomatic skills are not up to the task of discussing on the list without filtering through a chatbot, then they need to work on their diplomatic skills before subjecting us to slop.

--Larry Garfield

hello,

On Tue, Aug 25, 2026, 10:36 PM Larry Garfield <larry@garfieldtech.com> wrote:

I agree with Derick. Using a translator to assist with a language barrier is reasonable, and these days they’ve all been replaced with LLMs (justified or not). But I would still prefer to have that explicitly stated, so we know what we’re dealing with. (And can use simpler English in replies, potentially, to aid with understanding.)

Beyond that, I want to talk to humans, not slop machines. If someone’s diplomatic skills are not up to the task of discussing on the list without filtering through a chatbot, then they need to work on their diplomatic skills before subjecting us to slop.

I have to interfere here again.

I explained a perfectly valid case where llm are used, and they are many orders of magnitude better than translators, even based on llm.

I experience that daily. And the primary reason the personsI work with do it is, guess it, to respect me or others.

To say here, given someone has been directly pointed to via his post, would be extremely bad taken in many cultures (read: insulting, losing face, and they will move away).

As the “official” language is English here and most oss project, I cannot let that go unnoticed.

We must be welcoming for non natice speakers. And for one, I welcome them. And if the price is to have a slightly longer mail at time, so be it. respect and welcoming must prevail.


Pierre

@pierrejoye